In, out or shake it all about?

[duke63]

Other countries are quite entitled to say how it will affect them and might affect us, IMHO.

We are being given precious little information on how the leavers see the country being run outside the EU and I suspect that is why the vote will be to stay.

My gut feeling is we would have an almighty recession if we vote to leave.

[D41]

Why has the US got any say in what we do...their country fort for independence with lives being lost over it, we are in the EU and the older generation know what it's like to be outside of the EU. We need this vote, I think people are too scared to stand by ourselves because we have had the EU with us for so many years how do we know what will change, we don't. Typical d+ckh&ad US president, sticking his nose into other countries businesses, he needs to leave countries alone. They think they are god having their say, they seem to forget we are a strong nation full of good people who pull together in time of need, don't see them helping countries, only if they think they will suffer if they don't.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

Eh??

The only part of that which made any sense was the last line.....the HTC one.

[StMarks]

..... My gut feeling is we would have an almighty recession if we vote to leave.

How do you think our "opting to stand alone" will affect the artificially inflated property market mate.?
Perhaps that huge change would free up the market (especially in London).....?


....... so that the housing stock would be freed up by the world's billionaires, leaving more available property for the poor refugees fleeing the troubles in Syria and Africa etc..

[duke63]

I've no idea. Part of me thinks it would make it worse as those who buy property in London from abroad, many are probably doing it to launder dirty money from elsewhere. Without EU law enforcement it might make that problem worse.

Equally even the leading banks are saying that leaving might make £1 = 1 euro meaning that property is worth a lot less in European terms but then also cheaper to buy from Europe.

I've yet to hear what i consider a positive argument to leave from anyone.

Yet if we do leave we will lose:
Ease of travel to other European countries.
Traveling will be more expensive.
EU health cover.
Imports will suddenly become very expensive making inflation rise and potentially interest rates as a result.
Your bike insurance will no longer cover you automatically in Europe.

[StMarks]

Very good points mate.

On an unrelated subject, did your heart sink.? (for a moment or two)

[duke63]

Yes.

[Monty]

The only fact I've heard in this debate that I honestly believe is the EU will totally stiff us if we leave. They have to and don't really have a choice, otherwise the whole EU project will crumble in 5 years.

It's marriage of compromise for pretty much everyone in it, be that political or economical and trust me they will make an example of us.

Not saying we wouldn't get through it but very likely a few decades of pain.

[D41]

The only fact I've heard in this debate that I honestly believe is the EU will totally stiff us if we leave. They have to and don't really have a choice, otherwise the whole EU project will crumble in 5 years.

How is that a fact?? It hasn't happened, so it's not factual in any way whatsoever, merely conjecture...pure scare tactics & nothing more.

[Monty]

Yes my bad, should have said comment

[C00kiemonster]

As an EU citizen I see more how it works the more countries I visit, the more things i can buy from anywhere in Europe and frankly most of the regulation is good.

The only reasons I see to leave are headlines and soundbites made by politicians without any credible evidence behind them.

The more i think about it, the more i think its better to stay and negotiate any issues whilst part of it. I can only see the UK suffering if we leave.

All this referendum seems to be is an internal tory fight to shut the sceptics. Its certainly not for the benefit of the UK.

[Monty]

HAHA fecking genius!

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptfmAY6M6aA[/video]

[Jack]

we had all of those things ( except peace in N.I ) prior to the ECHR as far as I can tell

[StMarks]

Oh, and "The Freedom to............... be subjected to a legal system that can be "played" by seriously offensive persons & legal professionals against the best interests of society in general".???????

[Rossgo]

Patrick Stewart still got it!!

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[Monty]

we had all of those things ( except peace in N.I ) prior to the ECHR as far as I can tell

It's not what we had its what we'll end up with that worries me

[Kwacky]

Oh, and "The Freedom to............... be subjected to a legal system that can be "played" by seriously offensive persons & legal professionals against the best interests of society in general".???????

I'm an offensive legal person. Does that count?

[D41]

I thought it was a given.

Odd really though, when I think about it....can't ever really recall having a bad experience with an attorney....one really hilarious one, perhaps...but nothing I could call bad.

[Kwacky]

http://www.thecanary.co/2016/04/29/came ... tion-time/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



The Government has a whole host of programmes purportedly in place to support the jobless back into paid employment. Workfare refers to all of the programmes which are mandatory, long term and paid less than minimum wage. The Government’s Work Experience Programme, Sector Based Work Academies, Community Action Programme, Mandatory Work Activity scheme and The Work Programme all fall into this category. Under these Workfare programmes, unemployed people have been forced in long term, full time work for no more than the benefits to which they are entitled as citizens.

Workfare was ruled illegal in 2013. But instead of complying with the orders of the court, the government has continued to appeal the decision – suffering defeat after defeat. And now, the highest court in the land has told Cameron’s government that its workfare schemes are illegal, and they must pay back benefit claimants who were forced into these unlawful programmes. As the Press Association reports:

Five justices at the highest court in the land ruled, in what became known as the Poundland case, that the Government’s flagship back-to-work schemes were flawed because sufficient information had not been given to claimants to enable them to make representations before benefits were stopped.

The Government brought in emergency retrospective legislation, the Jobseekers (Back to Work Schemes) Act 2013, to “protect the public purse” and stop the payouts.

It was argued the sanctions had been justified and the claimants would be receiving “undeserved windfall payments”.

But a High Court judge, Mrs Justice Lang, declared the 2013 Act “incompatible” with Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which protects the right to fair hearings.



TL;DR - government wants foreced labour which is against the European Convention of Human Rights

[Kwacky]

I've seen a few posts on social media telling people you need to register if you want to vote in the EU Referendum


You need to be on the electoral register to vote in elections and referendums.


If you aren’t already registered to vote, you must register by 7 June if you want to vote in the EU referendum on 23 June.

You don’t need to register again if you’re already on the electoral register


https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[C00kiemonster]

Well the campaigns are hotting up now (sadly) as its the next bit of voting.

I've spent some time looking at what i can and listening and I'm still in the camp of staying in.

Fundamentally I think the referendum is too much of a decision and we should be voting to scale back some of our involvement, not leave - thats a more palatable and understandable debate. But anyway...

I don't think the UK will survive very well at all if it leaves the EU. The economic benefits of the common market etc far outweigh any need we have to moan about immigrants and some bureaucracy (which is the main reason people don't like the EU IMO). That would happen regardless of our membership of the EU. No borders would be shut any more then that they are now should we leave.

I've listened to the Out supporters so far and no one has quanitified good reasons to leave or any set of steps that would be needed afterwards. No one seems to be mentioning either the legal arguments that will rage for years and years on new agreements, rights, visas for travel, tariffs, borders etc. You can't undue EU membership the following day. The uncertainty will last for many many years and Britain will go into a huge decline. Economics doesn't like bad news or uncertainty and never has. The leave campaign is concentrating on bureaucracy and immigration - both of which can be worked on inside the EU.

Immigration won't change. Whats the UK going to do on 24th June - kick everyone out who isn't 'British'? I very much doubt it.

Leaving would be very shortsighted indeed, but I'm worried those in the UK that focus on one or two issues and not the whole picture will ruin the UK good and proper should the UK leave.