Dog Ownership

[Cav]

In my opinion the decision to own a dog is not a quick nor easy one to make. Costs, suitability, type of dog and length of life are all things that I considered when we had a litter and kept Elsie.

At this point, please point out if this is too much to consider and it should be an easier decision to make than that....

The reason for this question is because my mum has made a decision to have my first dog put to sleep in a week or so because he's getting snappy.

13/14 year old Collie-cross. Poor hearing. Losing eyesight slowly. All teeth have been removed. Always been a grumbly dog. He recently snapped at my brother with his face in his mouth (our dog never liked close face-to-face with anyone but my brother forgot that, wound him up with play then put his face to the dogs. He then blamed the dog - my mum then agreed with my brother). He also recently had a child's arm in his mouth. My mum was vague with this story and about all I can gather is that the child came from behind/the side to fuss him when the dog "bit" the child (no mention of a lead, controlling the dog, parent controlling the child, etc).

She's now having him put to sleep due to muzzling or lead walk decreasing his quality of life. He's 13/14 years old and still loves to run in the extremely quiet field at the back of her house.

Am I completely missing the point?! Please speak freely because if I am then I would like to know.

[kiwikrasher]

Different generation mate. I had a dog ‘sent to the farm to live’ when I was a kid too, because he was too much bother for my dad.

You have a different attitude on ownership and it’s a attitude I share.

But unless you are willing to take on the pooch yourself I’m guessing there is not much you can do.

[C00kiemonster]

It sounds like an excuse but as kiwi said unless you take the dog back not much you can do.

My own view is its an excuse to put the dog down. My pup bit our youngest last month as she shoved her face in the pups face as she was just waking up and startled her. Daughters fault and I told her so.

[Cav]

I'm contemplating taking him in but I'm aware that our situation isn't the best for him. He is old. He is grumpy. Plus we have a 1 year old Springer. Thankfully she is extremely well mannered but I wouldn't say they get on, more that she stays away from him.

I don't know how it would work out with us and not just that, I'm almost certain my mum wouldn't let me.

I'm more than aware there is the possibility of huge financial backing required too but I'm focusing on whether he would be okay living with another dog full time.

[Kwacky]

Tough one. You've known that dog all your life and no doubt you have some good memories associated with him.

Taking him in will disrupt your home and your own dog.

I'm sitting on the fence at the moment. But bear in mind given his age and health issues there will be a time when you do have to say farewell.

[Cav]

Bear in mind given his age and health issues there will be a time when you do have to say farewell.

Indeed.. and this is why I'm wondering if I'm just not taking it well. Thing is, to me he poses no threat so long as he is properly looked after/supervised/controlled which I feel I can do.

The biggest 2 factors to me with moving him in is that it will affect Elsie and it will also affect him. Like I say, it isn't ideal for him to move in.

[D41]

I think you let your Mum have her way & have the dog put down, and know that you did nothing.
OR...take the dog in for the limited time it has left, and know that you did your best.

[StMarks]

It's a tough one Cav, & fwiw along with the considerations that you listed to consider perhaps also the inevitable heart-break we suffer when our faithful friends die ? My reply is (as so often) going to illustrate my innate hypocrisy.

I hate to let go.: Pinot is now about the same age as your mum's, but not fairing as well from your description (She has Degenerative Myelopathy, and is increasingly unsteady, to the point that she can no longer manage going for walks). It is probably "that time",
- But when to draw the line.

My best friend's older brother is a vet, exceptionally well respected in his field.
. However when he first had his own practice it was not as successful as his qualifications would suggest. He sought the advice of the retired veterinarian who's practice he had replaced, to find out if he could identify why he was not as busy as he would expect.
Short version; He was working in the interest of the animals, where his predecessor pointed out that to be successful as a vet you have to put the wishes of the owner first. Frequently the two are at odds, and the owner will "waste" enormous sums of money for the chance a procedure may prolong their period of ownership.
Dogs live in the moment, if they are happy now , then they are happy. They do not sulk, hold grudges, or accord blame. 13yo is a pretty good life for a Collie X, and his quality of life is not going to improve over the next couple. I suspect my friend's brother would have little hesitation in pointing out that you will be continuing his life for your satisfaction rather than his.

Incidentally, something I have observed, mainly from my formative years around farmyards & stables is that "Grumpyness" in animals is often a symptom/indicator of pain or stress.

Lastly Pinot is not grumpy, in the way you describe. However she does tend to be grumpy towards Kiera (my 2yo version), and it seems to me that that attitude has been a negative influence on Kiera's development.

I realise I'm not going to be telling you anything you want to hear mate, but......

[Rossgo]

I think as usual StMarks has it on point.

Cav it's hard one to swallow but sounds more like your mum has the right intentions. A dog wants a happy life and now your collie X is becoming more grumpy he isn't having that type of life he is at that age where health will deteriorate. As a responsible owner you need to know when the right time is. I hate seeing animals being dragged along with their owners as they are too frail, I also hate seeing animals not having their best life. Maybe you aren't seeing the full extent of how your Collie is as you dont live there anymore whereas your mum lives and breaths it


On the note of taking in your collie X I wouldn't say that's a healthy idea. Your Springer has its home and when you upset her she won't feel as happy in your own home. Would you take in your misses male mate who doesn't think twice at walking out the shower with his winky out , then finding out its 8 inch flaccid - you get what I mean



But you raised a VERY good point with dog ownership.

Very sensible head on you Cav, totally agree with looking up dog types before inviting one into the family. I HATE when people get dogs and don't fully understand what to do and why that certain dog is acting a certain way etc. Research is 100% correct. Dogs are mans best friend, they will always be there for you if you look after them. I love my Ruby - she's collapsed right next to me after her walk with the ball. Love that feeling that they feel so safe and comfortable they can literally collapse and snuggls up next to you

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[Cav]

Some interesting points by both of you. St Marks in particular your point resonates with me but I think I still draw a different conclusion..

I'm going to see him tomorrow anyway, spend some time with him and hopefully sot things out with my mum too.

Regarding the grumpyness/pain situation, I suggested to my mum that she spoke to the vet about it but she didn't see the point. I don't know if it was spoken about or not :/

One thing I will say is that I don't feel my personal choice is out of selfishness, honestly I don't. My gut feeling is that this is a behavioral problem and they are fixable/improvable.


Your two contrasting views have helped though.. thank you.

[bb41]

Ask the vet if it's one you really trust to have the dogs interests first... usually in an older dog snapping is an indicator of pain somewhere ... maybe his meds need changing.

We have had aggression in one of our rescue Danes early on due to what happened ..he is fine with children but he is not great with other dogs so coming to live with 5 others was a challenge .

He is fine with ours now and loves people he knows but is still wary of strangers and does the big bark at anyone who knocks on the door .

Our rescue Terrier is a right snappy chap but the temperament changes if he is under the weather , well more at who he snaps at as he has his fave within the group.

I think if your Mum has no qualms about putting the dog to sleep then maybe she hasn't really investigated his health and alternatives to make his life more comfortable .

My advice would be to ask the opinion of a vet you trust, there are some out there who put money and owner before the animal

[Deegee]

Been down this road with our old Cocker, she was grumpy and snappy, but she’d seen me through the birth of my oldest lad and a divorce, so I paid to find out why she was getting worse. Turned out she had a brain tumour and had weeks to live before the tumour overtook her with life changing results. I took the weeks gladly and finally had to say goodbye before she suffered, I owed her that for everything she given me.

Hardest thing bar none I’ve ever done. Dusty here isn’t it.

[Cav]

Been down this road with our old Cocker, she was grumpy and snappy, but she’d seen me through the birth of my oldest lad and a divorce, so I paid to find out why she was getting worse. Turned out she had a brain tumour and had weeks to live before the tumour overtook her with life changing results. I took the weeks gladly and finally had to say goodbye before she suffered, I owed her that for everything she given me.

Hardest thing bar none I’ve ever done. Dusty here isn’t it.

That's got me choked up. I'm glad I can type and don't have to talk because I don't think I could.

I went to see him today and talk things through with my mum - there are so many things she says which don't add up and that she can't back up her claims but ultimately there's nothing I can do about it. I can't take him in without negative effects and extra stress for all involved.

I did take the camera though and here's some of the results of my last day with my first dog:

[bb41]

What about a breed specific rescue ? what a beautiful dog

[Cav]

Thank you I think he's gorgeous too. When he was younger a lot of people mistook him for a female.

My mum isn't going to change her mind. She takes it as a personal attack so she will just become stubborn.

I have to accept it for what it is. I haven't been there to see him and thus don't fully understand this whole thing and I'm sure he perks up when he sees me. Yesterday was an absolutely lovely couple of hours with him, chasing cars along the hedge in the field behind his home, jumping through the tall grass, rounding all of us up if we were too slow or too fast.

I don't understand nor do I agree with the decision but it isn't my decision to make. I feel pretty bloody sh!t about this whole thing and am torn on many levels.

[StMarks]

........ I feel pretty bloody sh!t about this whole thing and am torn on many levels.

IMHO you really shouldn't let yourself feel like that Cav, you have more than enough on your plate already. As I pointed out, dogs only live in the moment so unlike us have no concept of past or future. After all the fact that he was happy to see you & enjoyed himself today matters most, and your memories of him can all be positive.

....My mum isn't going to change her mind. She takes it as a personal attack so she will just become stubborn..

Obviously I have no knowledge of your mum, the only clues we have are to be gleaned from what we know of her son. Based on that, I don't expect that it's a decision she will have come to lightly, & I imagine that she will be equally upset as you even if she's reluctant to display so given the circumstances.?

He is a cracking looking dog, and fwiw I too would have great difficulty with the choice if I were in your place.
However your Mum probably knows him better than anyone else, as she have spent more time with him than anyone. I think you have to trust her & not let it eat at you. Perhaps try to enjoy your memories of a good long life (in dog terms he's in his 90's) & be thankful that he has not had to endure suffering or deterioration in his quality of life.

[Cav]

Thank you

FWIW, if you ever met my parents you would wonder how I'm as level-headed as I am - I should be an immature nutcase . I really do stand out from them

[Deegee]

Thank you

FWIW, if you ever met my parents you would wonder how I'm as level-headed as I am - I should be an immature nutcase . I really do stand out from them

Trust me when I say, you’re not the only one who has come out sensible despite their family.

[Rossgo]

Cav he is gorgeous..like StMarks says he does live in the moment. And having these amazing memories will live with you forever. It's hard and you won't ever forget him get as many pics as poss now

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[Cav]

I've lost another dog. This boy was a failed foster (by that I mean we fostered him and we couldn't let him go once he got here). He was about 12 too and had been living with what was suspected to be a heart murmur for a few years but it never gave him trouble.

A month back, he had what we thought was a mild heart attack or seizure a few weeks back but bounced back after 2 days.

Yesterday he had a much larger heart attack and was brought back by a couple of minutes of CPR by my mother-in-law. He spent the day at the vets on fluids and came home in the evening. He was temporarily paralysed on his rear legs and we suspected he was brain damaged mildy.

I had a message about half an hour ago to say he'd died sleeping on my MiL's lap.

I won't be able to get home and see him until later but right now keep flipping between an overwhelming need to sob and an overwhelming need to tell everyone around me to fvck off and start throwing sh!t.