Afghanistan

[Kwacky]

Desperately tragic scenes from the airport and across the country.

20 years intervention for nothing.

[duke63]

All those soldiers lives lost and what for exactly?

The relatives of many of them must be seething.

[StMarks]

It gives me absolutely no satisfaction whatsoever to point this out but.. Imho this was always going to be the eventual outcome.

I said so at the time the crusade was announced, and have reiterated my opinion a great many times over the ensuing decades.

As far as I can recall, the only substantive deviation from my predicted course of events has been the duration of occupation. I predicted circa < 10 years.

What an utter waste of; time, lives, resources, opportunities and effort.

You simply cannot impose our societies values and structures onto a bunch of loosely affiliated fiefdoms that acquiesce to a bigoted 5th century fairy story. "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still".
^ That, together with the investment available to them by OC wanting in on the huge revenue that the poppy crops offer, makes a formidable opposing force.

Altogether very distressing.

[Kwacky]

I'm with you all the way. Sadly this was all too inevitable.

What's pissed me off is the way we've tested those who helped us.

[Jack]

Jihad is preached from Pakistan and funded from Saudi , we were in the wrong place .

[StMarks]

,,,,, we were in the wrong place .

True Jack... But surely "we were in" is the main "wrong" bit.?
It seems to me that the preaching of bigotry & lies is what needs to be "fought against" , and that does not require guns death & destruction.
Education & knowledge and openness has the only chance of truly defeating these evils.
The easy response is to respond with might.
However the more we do so, the more we simply perpetuate conflicts.
It's a very long learning curve, and by no means a smooth one.
Nonetheless, taking an overview of the past 4k or so years, I guess we are moving in the right direction,,, generally-ish.??

[D41]

You can't fight a political and/or religious ideology by conventional means. You can try and restrict or contain such things, but it's going to be an uphill struggle at best, and utterly fruitless - or worse - at the other end of the scale, simply fanning the flames & reinforcing those beliefs, no matter how misguided they may be.
And of course ideologies have no borders, they shift as quickly as the people who subscribe to them.

[C00kiemonster]

For me its the sheer arrogance of thinking they will be fine without double checking and testing their fighting / government effectiveness. The UK and most notably the US has poured billions into infrastructure, army, training, salaries etc etc and their intelligence said they would be fine - i'd like to see what tests were done to check that.

The irony of the UK government offering to look after vulnerable Afghans when they are telling the brexiteers that the borders will be safe and they will stop migrants coming from France should not be lost on anyone.

Imagine the outrage of all the racists now

Its appalling what is happening - it should be the whole UN that looks to sort this situation with negociation and monitoring - not tanks. They have had enough of that - poor sods.

[Jack]

While it is a sad state of affairs , our best information is that in excess of 90% of the Afghan population want sharia law , over 70% want women to be veiled, 96% believe it is their religious duty to convert others and almost 80% believe that the appropriate penalty for leaving Islam is death . These people do not want a westernised/modern society it is incompatible with their beliefs .

[Bob T]

I would just nuke the place, but I am an ex military man.

[duke63]

From what the Sunday Times were saying, the Afghan army have no air support, little ammunition, little food and were not being paid. Frankly I doubt I would bother putting up much of a fight in those circumstances.

[duke63]

Wait til the US and Uk government start bleating about terrorists again and how we need them to protect us.

[C00kiemonster]

Wait til the US and Uk government start bleating about terrorists again and how we need them to protect us.

Give it a month....

[Kwacky]

While it is a sad state of affairs , our best information is that in excess of 90% of the Afghan population want sharia law , over 70% want women to be veiled, 96% believe it is their religious duty to convert others and almost 80% believe that the appropriate penalty for leaving Islam is death . These people do not want a westernised/modern society it is incompatible with their beliefs .

Over half of the population of Afghanistan is under 20. Almost 2/3rds are under 25. So those figures are pretty alarming when you think they've never known or can remember life under the Taliban.

Do you know the date when the data was obtained?

[Jack]

it's pew research , I believe it goes back to 2013 for those figures , I doubt theres been significant changes since then .

Most of those who voted to leave the EU have always been a part of it or remember very little from when we weren't , you can also be indoctrinated into the faith at a very early age I'm an ex Roman Catholic so I have some experience in these matters .

[StMarks]

I would just nuke the place, but I am an ex military man.

Fwiw so am I Bob T.

Furthermore I spent operational time out in the 'stans (albiet a fair while before it became the fashionable destination for Tours ).

Imho your comment belies a dire lack of knowledge of the subject, an inability for strategic planning and a myopic & bigoted attitude.?
In WW1 our forces were often directed by similar minds, who had achieved their rank by nepotism ( whilst my grandfather was being scorned by them for his & his colleagues of the RFC attempting to modernise & develop the forces) .
I expect you will have fitted in very well.

[kiwikrasher]

I would just nuke the place, but I am an ex military man.

I’m also ex military and while I never toured in the sand, being ex military does not excuse or justify that comment.

[D41]

I just read that as an offhand remark & nothing more.

[duke63]

Dominic Raab - what a Cnut.

[StMarks]

I just read that as an offhand remark & nothing more.

Yes,,, but then you & I have previously "expressed differing opinions" over this very subject, and at great length if you recall mate.

I guess I could make an exception in your case, but then,,,,