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[video]https://youtu.be/r7CPliHhGTs[/video]

The only saving grace is that he has no plans to return home.

It's turned into a slug it out war. Russia is moving into position then shelling and bombing the crap out of all area. They're making slow progress but they are creeping forward. This looks a lot more organised and planned out. Russia are using Intel to target large groups of defenders. I'm seeing a lot more dead Ukrainians.

There's lots of online footage of large truck convoys leaving occupied areas. The posters of the videos are all saying that the Russians are emptying stocks of grain.

NATO just happens to be holding a training exercise in eastern Europe

Kwacky wrote:NATO just happens to be holding a training exercise in eastern Europe

Always an effective tool for de-escalation, NOT*.


* I acknowledge that there have historically been instances where such exercises have been used to intimidate the opponents into abandoning their intentions, however they can't possibly think that is an appropriate tactic to use on Vlad ???



Oh, and in your image he looks to have a bigger pair of boobs than she does.!

I can't see how we can de-escalate the situation.

Putin has moved troops up to Finland and Moldova. Belarus have sent troops to the Poland border.

Putin's troops are raping women and children, executing civilisations, putting Ukrainians in camps or exporting them to far flung areas of Russia. Cities, towns and villages are being wiped off the map. Aid workers are being attacked and kidnapped. None of this suggests Putin is going to listen to anyone.

Putin is a bully. He has attacked countries in the past. He stole Crimea. No one had stood up to him before. He's clearly pissed off that Ukraine has got support.

NATO needs to show force.

Kwacky wrote:I can't see how we can de-escalate the situation.

Putin has moved troops up to Finland and Moldova. Belarus have sent troops to the Poland border.

Putin's troops are raping women and children, executing civilisations, putting Ukrainians in camps or exporting them to far flung areas of Russia. Cities, towns and villages are being wiped off the map. Aid workers are being attacked and kidnapped. None of this suggests Putin is going to listen to anyone.

Putin is a bully. He has attacked countries in the past. He stole Crimea. No one had stood up to him before. He's clearly pissed off that Ukraine has got support.

NATO needs to show force.

Agreed.

Yep,.... that lays it all out fairly straightforward-like. Well put.

I'm anti-war, all war, but if we ever had good reason to go to war, this is it.

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... hanging%2F" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A decent read about how the war is portrayed in Russia

Kwacky wrote:https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fw ... hanging%2F

A decent read about how the war is portrayed in Russia

That's nearly as terrifying as the actual war

That link holds nothing that is particularly surprising but much that is disturbing.

Kwacky wrote:I can't see how we can de-escalate the situation......

Acknowledged. As the situation is portrayed to us, the only person who can de-escalate is Putin.
However my concern is that we avoid any actions (at all costs) that could give him grounds to further escalate.
Fwiw I have always considered that threatening, in order to diffuse a confrontation, is only effective against certain types of opponent. -"Different strokes for different folks" and all that.?
Imho a NATO exercise will only show we are prepared to confront him ( in Putin's eyes). If we are to end this conflict he must be enabled to take something from this, that he can present/perceive as an accomplishment.
He absolutely will not back down in the face of threat, it is not in his nature.
Assassination is not a viable option, nor is a coup.
This will only end, if his vanity is satisfied.
It is very easy, in our cosseted lives, to protest that ^such an approach is "unfair" or "weak".
Bullsh1t.!
It is the pragmatic approach that we will have to endure, in order to avoid nuclear destruction.

I understand your point of view , however I very much doubt you would hold those same views if you lived in Latvia ,Lithuania, Moldova, Finland or Poland etc . We attempted appeasement in the late 30's while Austria and Czechoslovakia were "annexed" , it doesn't work when you are dealing with egos like Putins. I cannot see any way that we escape without putting boots on the ground and taking the fight to him, we ought to do what we did in 1815 when Napoleon escaped and retook France , we and most of the rest of europe declared war on the man not the nation .

I don't like war

I most certainly do not want to see the destruction of the planet

So what do we do?

Let Putin land lock Ukraine and then seize any other Russian speaking areas in eastern Europe?

Will that be enough for him? Or would he continue to push his luck?

We both know the answer.

Very valid perspectives, and yes Jack those "lessons from the past" seem especially poignant.

Jack wrote:... I very much doubt you would hold those same views if you lived in Latvia ,Lithuania, Moldova, Finland or Poland etc... .

Because I have not grown up in the societies of those countries, I cannot really know how that would effect my perspective. However I can assure you that I personally do not consider myself "safe" from his ambitions as a UK resident. My posts are fairly consistent drivel, but if I were more noteworthy anyone who had read them would know I have been "expressing concern" about the West's failing to address the (imho) substantive threat presented by Putin for decades.

Kwacky wrote:.So what do we do?

What should we do Kwacky ? - I only wish I could come out with some constructive suggestion, all I can really say is that the situation shouldn't left to get to this point. Sorry world.


It's a bit like that joke... :
Tourist pulls up his car in a country lane, and asks the old farm-hand "hey, can you tell me how you get to Fowey"
After a few moments of consideration the old lad replies " ahh well now, if I was going to Fowey I wouldn't start from here,,"

NATO missed all the warning signs. Or elected to ignore them.

Putin has played the long game and define an effective job. His billionaires and spies have worked their way into every aspect of British and American living. Europe is dependent on Russian gas and oil

He's tried to break up the EU and NATO

He's turned countries like the UK, USA France and Germany inside out and divided the public with arguments about race, gender and nationality.

Money talked. The richest Russians had wealth that turned the eyes of European and American politicians.

Now we/they realise there was a huge price to pay for that.

The voters of the world need to understand what they are voting for with right wing politics.