In, out or shake it all about?

[Rossgo]

I'm keeping my response short and sweet...

Flipping OUT!!

[dogbot]

Bojo the Clown wants out.

Should tell you everything you need to know.

I'd rather die than be in the same room as he and that **** Farage.

Actually, I'd rather they died.

[dogbot]

This, for me, from the author Richard Morgan neatly sums up the Brexit campaign...

Something very passive/aggressive about the Brexit crowd - no sense of a coherent political vision, just this colossal geopolitical sulk...

Actually, that pretty much hits the UKIP nail right squarely on the head. The politics of thought free grumpiness.

[Perkles]

Boris is a real life buffoon its amazing how these people get into power

[StMarks]

Boris is a real life buffoon its amazing how these people get into power

Don't be too convinced by his buffoon image Perky, Boris is every bit the political animal.

....And if we're being "amazed" by our politicians, then perhaps a quick peek across the pond helps puts things into perspective.??

[Kwacky]

Boris is very intelligent, a lot more so than Cameron, which is why Cameron tries to keep him on side.

Boris reminds me of that form of kung fu where they pretend to be drunk so you think you're dealing with an easy target. Don't fall for it.

[D6]

I have no idea which. I don't know enough about it all to make an informed decision. I thought that was what the politicians were for. To make these complex decisions for us keeping our best interests in mind.

[Perkles]

true at least we havent got a trump or Berlusconi ,both feckin nutters

[dogbot]

He might be intelligent, but he's still a complete **** buffoon and he sounds like he's inbred. I suspect he appeals to those who are still congenitally conditioned to touch a forelock when they meet one of their "betters".

"If ever there was a man of the people it's Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson."

Indeed. Personally, he reminds me of all the reasons I used to like Class War so much.

[duke63]

This, for me, from the author Richard Morgan neatly sums up the Brexit campaign...

Something very passive/aggressive about the Brexit crowd - no sense of a coherent political vision, just this colossal geopolitical sulk...

Actually, that pretty much hits the UKIP nail right squarely on the head. The politics of thought free grumpiness.

The only arguments I have heard for out are : we give too much money to the EU (completely forgetting that we get far more back than isn't just straight cash and their figures are usually wrong anyway)
and : we need to take back our own sovereign powers ( well i do appreciate that the EU isn't a great political animal but it does on occasion stand up for the little man against the bigger powers and in any case our own Parliament is hardly crammed full of intelligent people representing the rights and views of their local electorate and the decisions they have made over the last 20 years or so hardly stand up as though of great political genius ).

[dogbot]

There's some pretty coherent arguments for the EU, right there.

[Kwacky]

Lots of those are turned around by the Out lobby.

[Blade]

I keep hearing we give the EU £55 million a day which is shocking with the the way our schools, hospitals and indeed all public services are currently under funded and under resourced.

Can some one please explain what value we get back for this huge sum of money. DUKE suggested we get more out than we put in and tbh I'm very ignorant on the subject so some feedback on the specific value we get back from the EU for our £55 million a day would assist me in making an informed decision rather than a knee jerk decision.

I hope the various political parties are going to spend the next few months educating the whole UK public in the pros and cons of the subject so we can all make our own individual and hopefully informed choice. Unfortunately I fear we will be expected to follow the politicians one liners that they never substantiate or what certain big businesses want us to vote.

[dogbot]

Lots of those are turned around by the Out lobby.

To what good end, though?

"Yeah, greater human rights and better working conditions are terrible, aren't they?"

Honestly, if Farage and Johnson and their braying idiot supporters have their way, we'll be like China in 5 years.

These people are living in the some mythical past where Britain still has a glorious empire that is loved and respected around the world. The only problem is, that was never actually the case, apart from in the fevered imaginations of some middle class, Mail-reading Brits.

[duke63]

I keep hearing we give the EU £55 million a day which is shocking with the the way our schools, hospitals and indeed all public services are currently under funded and under resourced.

Can some one please explain what value we get back for this huge sum of money. DUKE suggested we get more out than we put in and tbh I'm very ignorant on the subject so some feedback on the specific value we get back from the EU for our £55 million a day would assist me in making an informed decision rather than a knee jerk decision.

I hope the various political parties are going to spend the next few months educating the whole UK public in the pros and cons of the subject so we can all make our own individual and hopefully informed choice. Unfortunately I fear we will be expected to follow the politicians one liners that they never substantiate or what certain big businesses want us to vote.

How do you put a financial value on not having had a war in the Eurozone for 70 years?

Also UK Farmers get EU subsidies and there are plenty of projects that are funded with EU cash but the media don't want you to know that because quite often they are research grants.

http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/press ... _19_en.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm the first to admit that there need to be big changes in the EU and the way it is run but you wont do that from being outside it.

[dogbot]

I'm the first to admit that there need to be big changes in the EU and the way it is run but you wont do that from being outside it.

This may be one of the most sensible things on the subject I've read. Agreed, totally.

[Kwacky]

I keep hearing we give the EU £55 million a day which is shocking with the the way our schools, hospitals and indeed all public services are currently under funded and under resourced.

Can some one please explain what value we get back for this huge sum of money. DUKE suggested we get more out than we put in and tbh I'm very ignorant on the subject so some feedback on the specific value we get back from the EU for our £55 million a day would assist me in making an informed decision rather than a knee jerk decision.

That's a black mark for Blade, I covered this earlier in the thread

Closing tax evasion loopholes would cover the deficit.

That UKIP figure of £55m per day is gross, not net.

The UK also gets money in from the EU, a lot of which supports our farmers.

Don't forget we're entitled to a lot we don't claim, the recent flooding for example we decided not to take from the relief fund.

[Perkles]

I keep hearing people tell me our schools are underfunded and under resourced ,my daughters school has a teacher and teachers assistant per class and even though shes only in pre school she has been on loads of school trips non of which ive paid for.Where is the under funding and under resourcing ? sorry but I didnt get any of that as a kid
start making google ,amazon and facebook pay the correct amount of tax would help this country for a start

[dogbot]

I think it varies quite wildly from school to school, dependent on the area and so on... although I'm obviously not an expert, I do know teachers who teach classes of 45+.

As for the tax thing, agree totally. Our tax laws are specifically designed to help big business and the wealthy slide out from under and not pay tax at all, if possible. Is it 7 years, I read the other day, since Osborne's family firm paid *any* tax at all?

Never mind, though. Let's get those immigrants and those poor folks on benefits! Yeah, they're to blame.

And people buy into that shit. Sigh.

[Perkles]

its a normal school in the middle of brum so a fair representation ,I think in general society sometimes need to lower their expectations in life