In, out or shake it all about?

[Cav]

Okay, I'll no longer sit on the fence.

Whilst I don't think everything the EU has to offer is a good thing, it is weight more towards the good than the bad and therefore I believe we should stay in.

When it comes to voting, I vote for what I believe is better for the country rather than what suits me best. For that reason things like cheap flights across the EU don't bother me (while it is a perk) but things like animal welfare and protecting the environment is something that is in the best interest of everyone.

It's the same thing with energy. Switching to electric cars doesn't help the environment while the energy used to create the electricity is fossil fuels - I'm not sure why know one seems to realise this.

I realise I'm getting off-topic so I'll shut up now.

[Kwacky]

The pollution produced making electricity is far less than the pollution produced to refine the petrol/diesel and then burn it in a combustion engine.

[Blade]

Duke are you suggesting the current low oil price is driven by western government to keep the economy moving.

My understanding was it was due to China's economy slowing and over supply because of US shale and Iranian Oil back in the international market. That and Opec refusing to cut production as Saudi don't want Iran to get any market share.

Or have I just swallowed what they want me to believe ?

[Blade]

The pollution produced making electricity is far less than the pollution produced to refine the petrol/diesel and then burn it in a combustion engine.

[kiwikrasher]

Duke are you suggesting the current low oil price is driven by western government to keep the economy moving.

My understanding was it was due to China's economy slowing and over supply because of US shale and Iranian Oil back in the international market. That and Opec refusing to cut production as Saudi don't want Iran to get any market share.

Or have I just swallowed what they want me to believe ?

My understanding was OPEC purposely over supplying to push the price down and make all the marginal oil production efforts in the US uneconomical and given them the market control again. Very simplistic view. Iran's only just recently joined the problem with the sanctions being lifted.

OPEC made a historic policy shift in November 2014 by refusing to cut supply and prop up prices in the hope that lower prices would curb the growth of more costly-to-develop competing supply sources. Since then production from the 12 OPEC members including Indonesia has risen by 1.65 MMbopd

[Cav]

The pollution produced making electricity is far less than the pollution produced to refine the petrol/diesel and then burn it in a combustion engine.

I'm not necessarily talking about emissions, more the use of fossil fuels to produce the electricity that powers the fossil fuel-powered vehicle replacement... Kinda massive flaw in the theory

[Kwacky]

That's because successive governments have failed to tackle the issue of renewal energy sources and because the public moan about wind farms, tidal farms and solar panels.

But electric cars do mean better quality air in our towns and cities. That's surely a good thing?

[Perkles]

I want a teslar

[dogbot]

Also, the petrochemical industry has massive lobbying power (especially in the US) and has spent millions and millions over the years trying to discredit its competitors and ensure fossil fuels stay front and centre.

[Cav]

I agree that, if a renewable source of energy ONLY powers electric cars, it can only be for the good of everyone.

Certainly in cities where there are no trees etc it makes perfect sense for electric cars, plus the fewer miles travelled but the technology still isn't right for someone like Perkles to have one as a company car, far too many miles and recharging takes time which he might not have.

I have considered it for myself - I travel 50miles per day plus a few social/domestic miles but it's things like towing my bike to trackdays that might be 200 miles away that worry me. I will not plan a journey around a 2 hour charge gap

[Kwacky]

Two thirds of car journeys are for less than 5 miles in the UK according to an RAC study.

http://www.racfoundation.org/assets/rac ... %20wp1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This pro-electric car report suggests 98% are 50 miles or less.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/107 ... says-study" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[C00kiemonster]

I want a teslar

Me too. They are fantastic.

[dogbot]

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/articl ... yMaFTE890x" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. 'That’s easy,' he replied. 'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice

You can see why Gove, Boris and so many other Murdoch minions are desperate to get out; it's their master's bidding.

[Perkles]

I want a teslar

Me too. They are fantastic.

I want one just for the massive touch screen

[duke63]

Duke are you suggesting the current low oil price is driven by western government to keep the economy moving.

My understanding was it was due to China's economy slowing and over supply because of US shale and Iranian Oil back in the international market. That and Opec refusing to cut production as Saudi don't want Iran to get any market share.

Or have I just swallowed what they want me to believe ?

I understood its partly due to the USA now producing oil from their shale which is flooding the market with more oil than is needed. Common sense would dictate that the US would prefer oil prices were higher so they got more revenue from their oil but that doesn't seem to be the case if they are flooding and already over producing market. That suggests to me they want low oil prices to keep the western economies afloat.

I've listened to a few 'scare' stories recently especially about China where its reckoned their banks will collapse like western banks as the Chinese government forced them to lend to build for the sake of building but they are now left with empty shell buildings and even empty towns as there is no work to fill them.

I do think we are only one bad step away from another collapse as much of western economies are built on massive debt which is just not sustainable.
One of the things i read was that if there were another collapse in the west, then they would make cash no longer legal tender so they could control all money flow.

[D6Nutz]

I want a teslar

Me too. They are fantastic.

if only I could afford one

[C00kiemonster]

I want a teslar

Me too. They are fantastic.

if only I could afford one

Not cheap, even second hand they hold their price around 60-70k from memory.

[duke63]

The make up of the current MPs and the way they will vote in the EU election is apparently this.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng- ... referendum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If the country votes to leave but the MPs vote to stay by 2 to 1, how can we have a stable Parliament? Would we have to have a general election?

[StMarks]

I see that UKIP don't have anyone voting to stay in.

A lot of people are against the EU, and would like to see us out. However I suspect that the "Devil you know" effect will inevitably sway the majority when the time comes.

What would Trump do.?

[duke63]

I see that UKIP don't have anyone voting to stay in.

..............
What would Trump do.?

Ban everyone from voting against him probably.