Putin and the West

[Cav]

I hope you realise I'm not discussing the actions of Russia. Those are irrefutable.

I'm talking about the Cold War, the actions of NATO in 1991 (IIRC) where they were actively seeking to push east and then the follow up actions of Russia in 1999 with the bombing of Checnya. Depending on where you draw the line in time you get a different perspective on the parts of blame. 26 days ago you would say Russia 100%. In the 1990s you would say that NATO were the aggressors. Bear in mind this is only the information publicly available and it would be a complete different argument if we knew all that was going on.

Heck, even the strange deaths of people thought to be spies or the poisoning in Salisbury are probably somehow linked to all of this. This was is Russia vs NATO under the guise of Russia vs Nazi Ukraine.

[Monty]

I want to know the true middle ground of where the fault lies between NATO and Russia. I bet it's a lot closer to the middle or possibly even NATO at fault than the media portray. I wonder how much propaganda we've been receiving over the decades.

Russia's fault and Russia's alone.... they invaded Ukraine and that's all there is to it. How could NATO be in any way responsible for one non-NATO country invading another country, which is also non-NATO ...?????

Follow the money

[D41]

Follow the money??....Is that all you've got?
Why don't you show me.... show me the money.
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!

[Monty]

Everything comes back to money and greed, everything.

[D41]

Not everything.... maybe every bad thing, but not everything.

[Kwacky]

This is a massive bargaining chip for Ukraine

[Tuffers]

Russian army surrounded on the outskirts of Kyiv. If true it could be over for Pukin. Possibly up to 8,000 Russians have been surrounded and cut off. I hope it's true https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1506265327973376009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[StMarks]

Be careful what you wish for..?


Whilst I deplore the wanton devastation that is being wrought in Ukraine,,,,,

,,,,, I'm even more concerned about the potential outcomes that may result from Vlad being faced with no option that enables him to save face.

[Cav]

I hope it's true. Would be a massive blow for Russia that's for sure. Then we'll see many more air strikes as a retaliation. Maybe a spattering of hydrogen.....

[Monty]

Not everything.... maybe every bad thing, but not everything.

True, I like to think of myself as a humanist and an optimist, but to be frank, the last decade has been a bit of a struggle on both counts.

[Kwacky]

Current rumours:

The Ukraine joint force operation on the mid South-East could be encircled once Russia has finished with Mariupol.

Up to 8,000 Russian troops to the north West of Kyiv are at risk of being surrounded as Ukraine forces start to push the Russians away from the city.

The FSB are pissed off with Putin. No mutiny but they're leaking information to the West how to deal with the conflict. Part of the information includes confirmation that nukes are not an option.

Russian troops in the North are not getting supplied and they're suffering from frostbite.

50,000 Russian troops/ personnel have been killed, injured, taken prisoner or are MIA/AWOL

[Cav]

The FSB are pissed off with Putin. No mutiny but they're leaking information to the West how to deal with the conflict. Part of the information includes confirmation that nukes are not an option.

Would this mean that there's possibly a positive future between Russia and the West if Corporate greed doesn't get in the way? (i.e. war profiteering)

[StMarks]

Current rumours:

The Ukraine joint force operation on the mid South-East could be encircled once Russia has finished with Mariupol.

Up to 8,000 Russian troops to the north West of Kyiv are at risk of being surrounded as Ukraine forces start to push the Russians away from the city.

The FSB are pissed off with Putin. No mutiny but they're leaking information to the West how to deal with the conflict. Part of the information includes confirmation that nukes are not an option.

Russian troops in the North are not getting supplied and they're suffering from frostbite.

50,000 Russian troops/ personnel have been killed, injured, taken prisoner or are MIA/AWOL

Sounds hopefull.

At risk of stating the obvious..: The FSB (the KGB v2.0) as it stands today is pretty much a product of Putin himself, when back in '98 he structured it entirely to fit his requirements.
So whilst there may be "leaks", imho we should always be very wary of accepting the veracity of such sources.

[Kwacky]

It's war so there's going to be a lot of misinformation.

I'm just passing on what I hear.

[Jack]

my quote of the day re Putin
"He's a spherical bastard"
meaning he's a bastard whichever way you look at him .

[Kwacky]

A Russian landing ship has been hit and it looks like the fire has taken hold. It's in dock so hopefully lightly crewed at the time it got hit.

[D41]

I watched Biden blunder his way through a press conference regarding Russia, Ukraine, etc. earlier today. I do like the man, but he's not exactly instilling me with confidence at the moment.

[Kwacky]

At least he can dress himself, unlike Johnson.

[Kwacky]

This makes a decent read.

If nothing else it shows that one side is more adaptable and flexible than the other

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... ar/627604/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Kwacky]

Current rumours and SitRep:

Ukrainians are being relocated to parts of Russia

Mariupol is falling. Russian and Chechen troops are in the centre. There's about 100k people left in the city. Say least 90% of the buildings are destroyed or damaged.

An American volunteer battalion has been spotted fighting North of Kyiv.

Izyum has fallen to the Russians.

Ukraine has won back a few villages and towns around Kyiv.