Tank Slap - Motorcycle Forum

Is the suggestion that automated cars are going to find and kill bikers?

Kwacky wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024, 16:10 Is the suggestion that automated cars are going to find and kill bikers?

My suggestion being, that if automated driving systems are to be adopted generally in cages (which seems probable), and if it is considered too risky for motorcycles to share the roads with automated driving vehicles (as indicated in the above article) , that is is more likely that motorcycles will be prohibited than automated vehicles..

Hth ?

"A message was left seeking comment from NHTSA. Since 2016, the agency has sent investigators to at least 35 crashes in which Teslas suspected of operating on a partially automated driving system hit parked emergency vehicles, motorcyclists or tractor trailers that crossed in the vehicles’ paths, causing a total of 17 deaths."

Fwiw I don't see motorcycles adopting automated driving, and if they were available I struggle to see who would wish to use them.??

Well thankfully the roads are safe now, because cars rely on human drivers.

Kwacky wrote: ↑28 Apr 2024, 18:39 Well thankfully the roads are safe now, because cars rely on human drivers.

I'm not sure that's entirely relevant Kwacky ??

I was looking towards the possibility that the uptake of automated systems may have the (?? unforseen??) consequence of precluding motorcycles from being permitted to use the same highways ?

I don't understand your argument. I thought you were suggesting that automated cars would make it too unsafe for motorcycles to share the road.

Kwacky wrote: ↑29 Apr 2024, 08:24 I don't understand your argument. I thought you were suggesting that automated cars would make it too unsafe for motorcycles to share the road.

Sort of, yes.
If automated systems cannot be shown to be infallible in endangering motorcyclists, it seems more probable that it would be motorcycles that would be precluded from using the highways doesn't it .?

No.

You can't tell everyone to stop using two wheels. It's not practical. Look at the number of countries around the world where 2 wheels are heavily used.

What you can do is to improve automated vehicles or not allow them on the roads.

Government's wouldn't tell people not to leave the house if cars didn't recognise pedestrians.

"A message was left seeking comment from NHTSA. Since 2016, the agency has sent investigators to at least 35 crashes in which Teslas suspected of operating on a partially automated driving system hit parked emergency vehicles, motorcyclists or tractor trailers that crossed in the vehicles’ paths, causing a total of 17 deaths."

That statement also includes emergency vehicles and large transport vehicles. There is zero chance they are going to be taken off the road. So the only solution is vast improvements in the automation of personal vehicles. Which will in turn improve safety for motorcyclists.

Also, take the stats in balance with the reality of other non-automated road users. How many motorcyclists have been killed by human drivers in non-automated vehicles since 2016. Proportionally larger amounts in guessing. So while motorcycle involved accidents are still occurring with autonomous vehicles, it’s likely still to be a safer environment for motorcyclists I would think.

Don’t worry St Marks, the robots aren’t out to get us just yet, and the likes of you and me are likely to injury ourselves with no one else involved that get run down by a Tesla

The whole point of automated vehicles, I would assume, is because they are safer.

We already have lots of safety systems built into new vehicles to take an element of control away from the driver. Auto braking, active cruise, lane centring systems.


Bear in mind that fully automated vehicles will almost certainly mean that vehicles can sense what all the vehicles around them are about to do.

They're also quicker, because they drive smoother and at a uniform distance, reducing panic braking. They don't get in to road rage incidents and brake check people or cut them up. They're better for the environment because the engines are used more economically. They cause less wear and tear to the roads. They're fat less likely to crash into road signs etc. They don't need road signs so there should be a reduction in those.

On paper, there's loads of reasons to bring them in.

I agree with many of the above points you have all made, obviously.
However automated systems sometimes tend to struggle when presented with (illogical) human actions. When all vehicles are automated & intercommunicating, collisions will be virtually obviated.
However (despite the prevelance of scooters in some parts of the world that was pointed out) I don't see our motorcycles fitting into that improved "total automated fully communicating traffic " ? (the point my thread was trying to make)

And, whilst automation development in general should be reassuring, it has to be done right & thought through fully.... Boeing 73 Max-8

Neither will pedestrians, mopeds, electric scooters, bicycles, or horses.

Will they be banned as well?

The driver was booked on suspicion of vehicular homicide, which pretty much says it all.
It's the whole notion of "self-driving" that is just plain wrong from the outset...it just encourages misuse, complacency, etc. It's a driver assistance feature....albeit a very sophisticated one, that lulls hapless drivers into a false sense of security and/or infallibility.

The software can be improved.

Sadly driving standards in the UK seem to be getting worse. There's over a million people driving without insurance. If they feel safe enough to do that, what else do they feel safe enough to do? Phone use is prevalent, I frequently smell weed coming from cars when I'm on the bike.

I understand why people are wary about AI controlling cars, but humans cause untold misery on our roads every single day.

Kwacky wrote: ↑01 May 2024, 07:55 The software can be improved.

Sadly driving standards in the UK seem to be getting worse. There's over a million people driving without insurance. If they feel safe enough to do that, what else do they feel safe enough to do? Phone use is prevalent, I frequently smell weed coming from cars when I'm on the bike.

I understand why people are wary about AI controlling cars, but humans cause untold misery on our roads every single day.

Precisely this.

I'd add also the tranche of car drivers who now feel they can bully other road users and generally do what the feck they like - that level of entitlement that seems to be present now too.

Driving a car on many roads these days is unpleasant.

The amount of weed i smell while walking past houses, people and cars now is unreal.

What a society.

Yep to the above - I have been saying this for ages, the police need to get out their cars and get on two wheels. You see more of what's going on when you are on the bike, al the senses are being used.
As for the bully mentality, that has got worse. However if you are in that situation, is it even wise to get out the car? a civil conversation is not likely to happen, but if you did..... Does the other person have a weapon ??? I have a vid of a dick who, cut a long story short sped up behind me, over took and tried to block me. He has something in his hand. I have watched it back a few times now, and still cant make out what it is. But they could have been bad news for me. Turns out the car was uninsured as well. When I looked up this car, its blue book value is £200K ffs!!

A

Police bikes have a few advantages over patrol cars, in a few areas of police work...and that's it. Beyond those few specific uses they're just not a very practical option for most police forces. End of the day they're just too expensive, because it always comes down to money at some level or other.

D41 wrote: ↑01 May 2024, 17:02 Police bikes ,,,,,,,, they're just too expensive,,,,,,,

That's such a great photograph...I wonder what year that was taken.
Or did you take it yourself..?