Tank Slap - Motorcycle Forum

They opened today complete with concrete anti ram bollards and an armed police presence.

I'm glad of the security but equally worried and sad about the world my children grow up in.

Jeeze, to be fair that's pretty heart breaking really the fact that we have got to do things like that. But if it helps and protects innocent lives then I suppose it's got to be done

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They do the same in Brum. Sad times.

You should see central London these days. There are arches and barriers all over the place. It's also getting very common seeing armed police..

What a world we've all created.

D6Nutz wrote:....What a world we've all created.

It seems to me that it's not us ( the majority of modern society) that are driving the need for these oppressive features.? -Isn't it to account for the potential actions of backward thinking fantasy zealots.

We should become a more secular society.: Enforce a ban on the promotion of religion within the UK, with a concentration on preventing children being exposed to it.

D6Nutz wrote:You should see central London these days. There are arches and barriers all over the place. It's also getting very common seeing armed police..

What a world we've all created.

We've stayed out of London and probably not been for a year but when we were there I think every Bobby we saw had a side arm.

Clearly we are turning into a mini America in our cities with armed police etc.

Ho2ever on a side note if it were to be used against some bike thieves then I'm all.in favour for it

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Do people really get upset seeing armed police??

It's not that big a deal...honest.

Religion isn't the problem

People using religion as a vehicle for their criminal acts is the problem.

Kwacky wrote:Religion isn't the problem

People using religion as a vehicle for their criminal acts is the problem.

I'm not going to disagree with that. People should be entirely free to believe whatever medieval fairy stories, and follow whatever perverse & pointless customs they choose. We all get just one life to spend as we see fit.
If you take away their tool of religion, that has been fine tuned over millennia to brainwash & control, then you are disarming these antisocial criminal groups.
Heaven knows I was not advocating the banning of religion, just banning it being taught to developing minds in the same (or often greater) way as real knowledge like science & other learnings.?

Kwacky wrote:Religion isn't the problem

People using religion as a vehicle for their criminal acts is the problem.

Pretty much nails it....it's simply a means of justification in their eyes. They're fanatics, and like any other fanatics, they can't see "beyond themselves", loosely speaking

StMarks wrote:

D6Nutz wrote:....What a world we've all created.

It seems to me that it's not us ( the majority of modern society) that are driving the need for these oppressive features.? -Isn't it to account for the potential actions of backward thinking fantasy zealots.

We should become a more secular society.: Enforce a ban on the promotion of religion within the UK, with a concentration on preventing children being exposed to it.

But it isn't really religious beliefs that the nutters are following. They are using religious beliefs ( which they know are a big part of many lives in many countries) and twisting them to make them a political belief to take control.

duke63 wrote:..But it isn't really religious beliefs that the nutters are following. They are using religious beliefs ( which they know are a big part of many lives in many countries) and twisting them to make them a political belief to take control.

Semantics.
I'm sure that you can see that if you take away the facility of religious teaching that is used to propagate this mindlessness, you withdraw their most potent tool.?

Taking away religious teaching is just another means of control though.

Effectively 'i don't want you being taught that someone has greater control over you than me' - 'Me' in this case being the politician or law maker.

Most true religious teaching is about love for your fellow human being and being tolerant of others.

duke63 wrote:Taking away religious teaching is just another means of control though..

Fwiw I personally would far prefer to live in a society that was "controlled" by enforced teaching of fact only knowledge, rather than a society controlled by armed police & anti ram bollards everywhere.?

duke63 wrote:..Most true religious teaching is about love for your fellow human being and being tolerant of others.

But isn't tolerance of others just good civilised behaviour, rather than a uniquely religious teaching.? I can't think of many religions that promote the tolerance of different beliefs? (although a few remarkable clerics occasionally claim to do so) - rather they seem universally intent on increasing the quota subscribing to their particular doctrine.??

These days all Organised Religion exists solely to promote themselves, and to ensure their perpetuation.

So you're encouraging people not to think for themselves and to only accept what they're being told in a controlled environment?

Kwacky wrote:So you're encouraging people not to think for themselves and to only accept what they're being told in a controlled environment?

I don't understand how you conclude that from what I have written Kwacky.?

Fwiw I think it is vitally important that people are encouraged to think for themselves, and never to be blinkered by the opinions of others. I think people should be taught facts, & fiction should be something that can be sought out for entertainment.

StMarks wrote:

duke63 wrote:Taking away religious teaching is just another means of control though..

Fwiw I personally would far prefer to live in a society that was "controlled" by enforced teaching of fact only knowledge, rather than a society controlled by armed police & anti ram bollards everywhere.?

The way I view it, religion was developed as a way to answer the unknowns of life. All civilisations have a religion of sorts, even the lost tribes of deepest Africa determine spirits or gods are responsible for things they can't explain. The difference is the organised religions have just got stories that have developed more. These beliefs in themselves I don't see as a problem, misguided? IMHO yes.

The problem is through history these developed religions have been used by the more educated and influential to control the masses and so even the original fairy tale has been distorted. The whole Christmas and Easter stories were fabricated to absorb Pagan celebrations in to the Christian structure to easily convert the masses. Why did they need converting? So they could be more easily controlled. It's all about power and not true belief.

All my own opinion of course from the limited amount of research and knowledge I've gleamed over my meagre life. Which included being heavily immersed in the Catholic Church till 16.

Now the problem with your statement in bold St Marks (even though I agree to some extend the basis of your idea) is who determines what is fact? There has been many an educated theological argument presented to determine that religious beliefs are fact. Some agree, some don't. So if you are mandating "teaching of facts only" and determine religion can't be taught, aren't you just behaving the same way as the religious zealots? "I'm right and this is the only way I tell you!"

I m taking my hip flask to the Christmas Markets.

I want Brandy the wife wants Disaronno now there's a real problem.

Mix them.