The Budget

[duke63]

What a **** shambles this Country is.

For years the Government has tried to tempt people away from self employment and into employment to enable them to tax everyone more and the same.

Today they appear to have given up on that but instead decided to tax the self employed exactly the same as the employed since self employment suits big business better. In effect they have further moved the tax burden away from the rich Companies and onto the self employed individual.

So much for the Party that claimed to represent the small business owner. I bet even Maggie is turning in her grave,

[Kwacky]

Didn't the Tories promise not to increase national insurance?

[duke63]

Yep.

[duke63]

Someone has to pay for the costs of Brexit though. How long before the Government starts using it as an excuse for tax rises too?

[Kwacky]

They need to plug the tax gaps. That'll sort it all out. But their mate's would miss a few million quid, so it's better that middle England foots the bill

[duke63]

Some of the language used by Hammond to justify his NI increases was to help public services.

I didn't hear him mention taxing properly Google/Apple etc to help pay for public services.

Nor did he mention the abuse of the tax system by offshore companies.

I can't believe many people will have been duped by this today as i suspect he might have hit hardest with those who were the most fervent believers in Brexit...your brickies,plasterers etc.

[Blade]

Why should self employed people be given preferential treatment in the first place.

NI is a percentage of your income so therefore the amount you pay is proportional to your income which seems fair imo. If the business doesn't make much profit they don't pay much NI. No system is perfect but if we all pay a percentage of what we earn we all contribute a fair share.

To me it sounds like people are moaning that a good thing is coming to an end rather than being grateful they had a tax break others didn't get in the first place.

Depends how you look at it but moaning preferential treatment is coming to an end is a very one side argument IMO.

[duke63]

They don't get holiday pay or sick pay or unemployment benefit , Blade. So they are not getting the same benefits from paying NIC despite what the government might claim.

[Blade]

Duke my view may be blinkered but I work with a lot of self employed people who's hourly rate is double mine in a staff position and they also pay less tax but they then moan they don't get the benefits you mention even though they get double the income for the same work. Not the same for every self employed person I understand that but their not all poor and hard done by either.

I'm not a fan of different tax bands for different earners. If tax was a single fixed for all percentage we would all contribute the exact same proportion of our income which imo would be fair. Higher earners would still pay a lot more than low income earners but the proportion would be the same and therefore fair imo.

[duke63]

From my experience that isn't the norm, Blade.

A lot of people no longer have the option to be employed either, its self employment or nothing. it's a way of Companies avoiding any responsibility for the staff they use.

[Blade]

Yeah Duke, I realise my experience may be unique in a general context but it's very common in the engineering game.

I've worked for a number of employers in a variety of roles and there has always been self employed Contractors doing the same job as me in what are effectively permanent staff positions in all but name and earning vastly more money and then moaning about losing perks.

Perhaps not typical across the board but in 30 years of engineering it's always been common practice for individuals to be limited companies of 1 person who then pay themselves in company shares and drive a company car all as tax fiddles as well as earning a vastly better hourly rate they p! $$ up the wall and moan of not getting a pension.

Reality is they are very well compensated for their choice but don't choose to put away for a rainy day and instead live a film star lifestyle they probably can't actually afford.