In, out or shake it all about?

[Blade]

Must be, especially if a knowledgable guy at work said it

He is quite a knowledgable and well informed guy on current affairs and politics TBH who I actually have a lot of time and respect for.

Just looking for a balanced view and the chance for some guys on here who are equally well informed to confirm or challenge these comments as I'm finding them very influential in how I vote although I'm not full decided on which way to vote yet so some comments to counter could be very useful.

[Blade]

No one knows dude, nobody. It's all speculation

Maybe a stupid question but why don't people know? Especially people who are experts in these areas and who we turn to for advice. I'm not talking tankslappers but more people who are professors and official government advisors in these areas.

We've been in the EU and we have been a trading nation prior to the EU being created so surely we have data on both IN and OUT.

[Kwacky]

Because no one in our position has done it before.

People will trade with us, as we'll continue to trade with others. What we don't know is how the EU will react. Things could carry on as normal, which is doubtful. The EU could throw its toys out of the pram and tax us hard on our exports, but we could do the same. The real issue is the interim period, when we have to start trading with European countries after our exit (if we leave).

As there will be uncertainty about what happens, if we leave, the markets will react badly, they always do when they don't know the out come. Expect a mini recession in the UK as the investors get worried about their money. How long that recession lasts and how we recover from it is the great unknown. The problem with the UK is that we have killed off our ability to make things. Either because we the consumer want cheap goods or because this and previous governments have done little to protect those companies. This government knows how badly exposed we are outside of the EU.

[Monty]

No one knows dude, nobody. It's all speculation

Maybe a stupid question but why don't people know? Especially people who are experts in these areas and who we turn to for advice. I'm not talking tankslappers but more people who are professors and official government advisors in these areas.

We've been in the EU and we have been a trading nation prior to the EU being created so surely we have data on both IN and OUT.

I wasn't trying to be flippant, I honestly believe no one knows what will happen if we stay or if we leave.

With regard to other countries joining the EU, very member state has a veto, so no one can say who will get in, if they ever get in and when.

The foundation of Europe is the richer countries spend to build up the poorer to the point that the richer countries benefit from their markets. It's just like any other investment, look at Spain and Portugal 30 years ago and compare it to now. Obviously taking the into account the crash.

Personally for me it's an ideological choice, but I do struggle with the corporate lobbyist and what France and Germany did to Greece.

[D41]

Can't argue with either of the above two posts.

And believe me, I'm trying to.

[Kwacky]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36526158" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I see the EU Court has sided with the UK on the issue of child benefits. I wonder if they would have been so kind to us if this referendum wasn't going ahead?

[D41]

To encourage the UK to stay in, you think??? Or merely to placate all parties concerned for a brief period?

[Kwacky]

The latter I reckon.

That said, the judgment does make sense, as they usually do when people can be bothered to go beyond the headline.

[Kwacky]

Some good hard facts here about migration:-
http://visual.ons.gov.uk/uk-perspective ... om-the-uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The most common reason for migrating to the UK in 2015 was for ‘work-related’ reasons. In 2015, 294,0009 people from outside the UK migrated to the UK for ‘work-related’ reasons. Of these, 61% (178,000) were from EU citizens, 24% (72,000) were non-EU citizens and the rest (44,000) were British citizens.

In 2015, a total of 44% (277,000) of long-term immigrants to the UK were non-EU citizens, 43% (270,000) were EU citizens and 13% (83,000) were British citizens.

The most common nationality entering the UK (excluding British) was Indian with 46,000 people immigrating in 2014. China was second in the list with 39,000 people. The top three EU countries with the highest numbers of citizens immigrating to the UK were Romania (37,000), Poland (32,000) and France (24,000)

[D41]

That's an expansive link....liked the interactive parts.....nailed one of them and couldn't have been farther off on the second.

But it bears out....it's just not the same place when I've visited. The diversity doesn't bother me one bit. The fixing up of old stuff with a brush & some gaudy paint looks downright tacky. The train services were appalling...and expensive. Fuel is laughable, but I sorta expect that. Smokes are ridiculous. Food is patchy but overall pretty decent...but that always depends on what your tastes run to, so not a very good barometer.

That said, I think it would be sad if it were the same.

[Kwacky]

I see both sides have taken to the water

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_aud ... s/36536058" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The whole thing has descended into a farce. Neither side is coming out of this very well. There's a lack of strategy, no coherent arguments and too much scaremongering going on.

What has emerged is how gullible people will be. The moment something is posted on facebook it's shared and spread without any review or research.

The most disappointing thing is seeing how quickly so many are prepared to believe that the ills of this country are down to immigration and immigrants., If we do leave the EU and shut our borders, who will the next government blame for Britain becoming a shithole?

[StMarks]

..... If we do leave the EU and shut our boards, who will the next government blame for Britain becoming a shithole?

Well, now that's easy.: The last governments, of course..!

Fwiw it seems to me that "needing to have someone else to blame" is becoming an acceptable & increasingly universal character trait.

[Kwacky]

You're right. Finger pointing seems to be the current trend.

[Rossgo]

But who says our country will become a shithole? There are many countries that do perfectly fine without being part of the EU why can't we do the same?

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Kwacky]

Most of it already is

The roads, the schools, the lack of police, poor funding for hospitals, litter everywhere, High Streets full of takeaways - that sort of thing.

[Rossgo]

Hahaha actually you have got a point!! It's a real shame we are going that way, we seem to overlook a lot of this and just take it as the norm which is totally wrong.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[Kwacky]

There's been a steady decline for some time. You can tell by spotting the little things, people are caring less about their appearance, you don't see people sweeping outside their houses, poor diets, loads of litter and fly tipping. We seem to have lost some pride in ourselves. I have no idea how we get that back.

[StMarks]

There's been a steady decline for some time. You can tell by spotting the little things, people are caring less about their appearance, you don't see people sweeping outside their houses, poor diets, loads of litter and fly tipping.....

Obviously that will all change when we stand alone, and put up barriers against the world flooding in...

We will be proud & happy because we will all be so rich, from not having to pay out any more billions to subsidise the EEC.

[Kwacky]

Contribution to Foreign Aid : £11.3bn

Contribution to the EU: £8.5bn (net, or £13bn gross)




I'll just leave that there

[Perkles]

Ban chavs its all their fault