ZX10 tuning info - Blade/Perkles/Rocket

[duke63]

Some really interesting info on the BSD website about work they have actually done on customer bikes and the feedback they get.

Thought you might like to see what they say about the ZX10.

http://bsd.uk.com/kawasaki-zx-10r-ecu-r ... s-tell-us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[C00kiemonster]

That's very interesting. Remapping traction control on the move, that's trick.

[duke63]

I can easily lose an hour reading about the various bikes they have worked on on their website.

[Blade]

Cheers Duke, interesting read and had heard longer cans produced better results.

The comment the TC can't be changed when riding as standard is not true. It can as can the power modes you just have to have a closed throttle briefly that's all.

[Perkles]

Nice link duke,good to hear they say the engines are strong.I think my next mod is a remap

[Blade]

I went the power commander route Perks but a lot of lads really rate the Woolwich remaps.

[Perkles]

Yes I've read about the woolich but I think I'm going for a live remap.Just been reading about the zx10 tunes 190 Bhp with a bmc filter and end can is very impressive

[DaytonAndy]

Speaking to the guy that dyno'd my 675, an ecu remap is ok but NEVER as good as power commander type systems. The BSD site claims their ecu remap is more elegant but not better. I can see the point of it as the sneaky might not declare it as a modification so wouldn't affect insurance whereas a power commander is fairly easy to spot and increased my insurance quotes.
Blade you really should get your bike on a dyno. Am I understanding it right that you've installed a power commander but you're running a map from someone else's bike? I'm no expert but isn't that potentially a really bad idea especially if it's a performance tune? I could be completely wrong though just my 2p!

[Cav]

2 things I'll comment on from what's said above...

1) An ECU reflash is theoretically better - you can sometimes get more tuneability depending on how well a tuner knows the ECU. The absolute best is a KIT ECU. These are fully unlocked and not a piggyback system. The main gain from this being better driveability and torque curve (peak power is somewhat meaningless without these two things being good)

2) Running someone elses tune is "okay" so long as you trust the source. It's no different from the standard map (one map that runs on all bikes) but yes there is such a huge potential for damage to be done. I would definitely advise getting a custom tune ASAP. Get two maps done, one for the quiet exhaust and one for the loud exhaust but DO NOT let them do more than 3 runs at a time as (even with huge fans) the bike will operate hotter than normal and there is a potential for causing damage.

[DaytonAndy]

From ecu west.com
Power Commander Versus ECU Remapping

This is the one question I get asked the most often when it comes to street and track bike tuning. So I’ll give you my perspective. I’ll start by saying they’re both excellent at what they do. And maybe the best way to go about answering this in a way everyone can understand is to describe what they both can and cant do.

Power Commander (PCV, Bazzaz – Piggy back Fuel Controllers)

They intercept and change the signal from the Engine Control Unit (ECU) to the injectors, adding or taking away fuel during combustion. This alters the Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) of the bike, more fuel equates to a richer AFR, less fuel a leaner AFR. Rich AFR’s will present the following issues.Dirty exhaust pipe or soot and excessive smoke (unburnt fuel)Cooler combustion and exhaust temperaturesMore emissions to the atmosphereLess powerLeaner AFR’s will present these issuesToo lean – high combustion and exhaust temperatures, engine damage – holed pistons etcDetonation

ECU Remapping

AFR’s. The ECU’s internal settings or parameters are edited so that the AFR’s are changed to bring them closer to the ideal 14.7:1. Most tuners will aim for anywhere between 12.8-13.1 at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) as this provides a safety margin. ECU remapping can achieve this without hacking into the bikes wiring or having additional components strewn throughout the bike by altering the existing factory maps.Timing. Timing tables or maps can also be edited. Altering (advancing) the bikes timing is where more power can be safely gained over border line AFR’s. Fuel controllers can not alter a bikes timing. Factories sometimes install timing retards in the first three gears of their bikes to lessen the power hit. People sometimes fit Timing Retard Eliminators (TRE’s) to combat this, again more wiring, modifications and components to install. When an ECU is remapped, these retards are simply removed and you’re good to go without the need of a TRE.Settings. There are many settings and limits which can be changed or removed when an ECU is remapped. Some of which are listed below.Top speed limiters can be removedIdle speed can be increased/decreasedRev limits can be increased, this sometimes lets you pull a gear that bit longer before having to shift or have the rev limiter savagely cut in adding to your lap times.Thermo fan cut in temps can be alteredDeceleration maps can be altered giving a much improved throttle transition and removing that dreaded snatch.

Proponents of Power Commanders are usually tuners (or customers of) who have a dyno in their workshop, they will fit your fuel controller then give you a “custom tune” to suit your bike and its modifications. They do this by adjusting the fuel controller until they are satisfied with the AFR’s throughout the rev range of your bike, you then give you a print out that shows the AFR curve as well as power and torque curves. Nice to show your mates. The issue here is that it i

s very easy to manipulate the results of the dyno graph to show a much larger gain than you actually got. This is a problem throughout all disciplines of automotive tuning. It has to be said though that there are decent and reputable tuners who don’t do this, so don’t be afraid to ask if you go down this path.

These tuners will argue that manufacturing tolerance deviations will produce bikes that are all profoundly different and require custom AFR tuning. My take is that modern manufacturing processes now punch out bikes that are so closely cloned that I’m not sure this is such an issue any more, lets face it, the bikes all pretty much feel the same off the show room floor.

ECU tune developers will take a bike and tune it both on the track and on the dyno in every conceivable state of modification and develop tunes for each of these, for example there will be an optimised tune to suit an R1 in stock trim, then another tune developed for the bike with a slip on, then another with a full system and so on. So the end user will get a tune pretty much customised for their bike if they tell the tuner exactly what they have done. And there is always a factor of safety built into these tune files to ensure reliability. I’ve had customers put their bikes on a dyno after an ECU remap and their AFR’s are just about bang on. So the tune developers really do get it right.

Conclusion

The optimum setup would be to have your ECU remapped, then fit a fuel controller and have it dyno tuned to get your fuelling precise. This is what all of my race team customers do. For the average punter though, if  you had to choose one, the ECU remap would be in my opinion, the best value modification you could do for your bike – hands down.

[Perkles]

BSD also turn off all the emissions crap and delete the use of the Lambda sensor,you cant do this with a piggy back system .I have always had my cars live remapped and the results have been fantastic.The fact they have tuned so many zx10s and they know them inside out also gets my vote

[DaytonAndy]

It seems the ecu remap is the winner lol. Depends how close they are to you I suppose? I used Motrac because they were very close to me and I picked up a pcv cheap from eBay. Also any problems or future modifications I make and they're round the corner for a little tweaking.

[Cav]

Essentially you have the choice of full control or limited control. Considering ECU tuning is cheaper plus you get more control I would definitely go with the ECU flash

[DaytonAndy]

If you have a specialist close enough I'd definitely agree. If it meant a seven hour round trip... I'm too lazy... and not good enough to benefit lol.

[Blade]

To answer thr question on my pc map.

Its a downloaded map from Dynojet UK. I had a very lengthy chat and a dozen email conversations with the tech guys at Dynojet UK who are the guru's on powercomamders , custom mapped my SP and also do the work for Paul Bird Motorsport aka Shakey Byrne's bike, they know their product well. Believe me I did a lot of research on this.

Without going into loads of detail we selected a map and have achieved great results. The fueling is buttery smooth and I have no concerns at all with the bikes fuelling or power delivery.

The reason I went PC route and not the ecu reflash route is I have an element of control. If I change things I just download a new map and no need for another reflash and the expense of such. I also have something physical I can remove and sell and as bought the PCV second hand will recover 90 if not 100% of my cost so effectively a free mod.

Each to there own and not knocking ecu re flashes just explaining why I opted to go the power commander route.

[Blade]

Something also worth noting is a ecu reflash is only as good as the operator flashing it so make sure your happy with his competence and ability.

[Blade]

BSD also turn off all the emissions crap and delete the use of the Lambda sensor,you cant do this with a piggy back system .I have always had my cars live remapped and the results have been fantastic.The fact they have tuned so many zx10s and they know them inside out also gets my vote

Just for info you can delete the lambda sensor with a power commander if you wanted to go down that route. I think it's an 02 eliminator.

http://www.dynojet.co.uk/index.php/powe ... o2-sensors" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I checked my old emails and found this comment from the tech guy at Dynojet UK

"The o2 optimiser allows control of the lambda sensors' closed loop range in gears 4,5 and 6 (upto 20% throttle and approximately 6,500rpm). If you are using the power commander to smooth out the lower gears you will not need this part. However, if you have a problem in the lower rpm range in the higher gears I would advise this part."

[Blade]

Some ecu reflash info specific to the zx10r.

Hope its useful Perks

http://www.zx10rarcher.com/faq.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[DaytonAndy]

Oops I remember talking to you about that now
How do you find the low power maps with the pc fitted?

[Blade]

Sorry Andy dont understand your question. I m being tick again