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Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010

Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010

Posted by Monty 
 
Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 01 March 2010 10:23AM
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Location:
 
Start:
22/04/2010 07:30 
End:
22/04/2010 17:00 
Anyone fancy it?

I've just booked up, should be around 6 us going if all goes to plan.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 03 March 2010 11:37AM
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Check this out

[www.daytona600.org]
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Duke63 03 March 2010 08:38PM
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No disrespect, Monty, but i think the 675 will win comfortably! The 650/600 is based on a 10 year old design.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2010 08:38PM by Duke63.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 03 March 2010 08:54PM
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Non taken mate, I expect the 675 to win as well but not by much. But that's not the point.

It won't win proportionally by the amount of money spent.

i.e. if your got an older bike and you wont the latest model it could be as much as another 5 or 6 grand in the kitty. However spending a few hundred in the right area can make nearly as much difference on the track.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Duke63 03 March 2010 10:22PM
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I'd agree with your point about spending a few hundred can be money well spent. We all get taken in by buying flash blingy bits but quite often, a few hundred pounds spent on suspension or tyres or brakes can make a far bigger difference proportionally. I was astonished in the difference in the Fireblade when i spent £40 having the suspension just set up right.

When i get the Ducati back i'm going to look at maybe improving the suspension on that before spending money elsewhere.

I do think th engine of the 675 will make a much bigger difference though, after all it is still quicker than the other jap 600's even now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2010 10:26PM by Duke63.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 03 March 2010 10:53PM
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I don't think the power difference will be that much of a factor at Brands Hatch Indy. Where the 675 will steal it is on the gas out of the corners. All that silky sooth torque.

Time will tell though, if this does happen Cornish has very kindly offered to lend us some Chasecam data loggers.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Kwacky 04 March 2010 12:35AM
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When I took the 675 out I decided that there wasn't enough between my tricked up daytona and the 675 to make me want to buy the new triple. Out of the box the 675 is a worthy winner of so many accolades, but we all ride differently. As Duke says, it doesn't take too much cash to improve a bike to your liking.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Graycat 04 March 2010 04:51AM
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Interesting idea, mate. I'd be up for having a go at that Smile

One thought though - how much have you spent on your D6? I know you say it's heavily mod'd but you'd have to take that into account for the cost comparison.

Having been round Mallory with Leigh and D6 on D6/650's and me on my new 675 at the time I'd say the straight line speed is actually a huge difference even on that short-ish start/finish straight. The 675 just had so much.

Can't really comment about the cornering though as I ride like a 2 day old duck on ice! Rolling on the floor laughing Be interesting to hear what the other guys from that day thought as we'd done Donnington together a few months earlier with me on a stock D6.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Duke63 04 March 2010 05:14AM
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Quote
Graycat


Having been round Mallory with Leigh and D6 on D6/650's and me on my new 675 at the time I'd say the straight line speed is actually a huge difference even on that short-ish start/finish straight. The 675 just had so much.

.

It might depend on if the D650's gearing has been changed. If it hasn't then i don't think the bike will stay even close to a 675 coming out of Clearways and onto the main straight. By the time you hit Paddock bend the 675 would be long gone IMHO. I would think the 675 would have close to 25% more bhp and less weight.

It is in interesting idea though. We going to have a Tankslap sweep on the number of seconds difference per lap?
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 04 March 2010 05:17AM
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Out right power has very little advantage at Brands Indy.

Check out the 1098 at around 5.59, last corner onto the main straight. Even when he picks it up he doesn't get any where near me. And that's 160BHP!

[img441.imageshack.us]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2010 06:50AM by Monty.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 04 March 2010 10:00AM
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Quote
Graycat
Interesting idea, mate. I'd be up for having a go at that Smile

One thought though - how much have you spent on your D6? I know you say it's heavily mod'd but you'd have to take that into account for the cost comparison.

Having been round Mallory with Leigh and D6 on D6/650's and me on my new 675 at the time I'd say the straight line speed is actually a huge difference even on that short-ish start/finish straight. The 675 just had so much.

Can't really comment about the cornering though as I ride like a 2 day old duck on ice! Rolling on the floor laughing Be interesting to hear what the other guys from that day thought as we'd done Donnington together a few months earlier with me on a stock D6.

Tim are you offering the services of a stock 675? Might help Superbike as I reckon Triumph maybe a bit reluctant to lend them a bike.

My bike isn't really heavily modified, it's got a WP fusion rear shock and MCT modified forks. Basically 100mm shorter springs with spacers and a full tune. Cost around 600 quid in total including the shock.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
RC8Leigh 09 March 2010 10:12PM
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Quote
Graycat
Interesting idea, mate. I'd be up for having a go at that Smile

One thought though - how much have you spent on your D6? I know you say it's heavily mod'd but you'd have to take that into account for the cost comparison.

Having been round Mallory with Leigh and D6 on D6/650's and me on my new 675 at the time I'd say the straight line speed is actually a huge difference even on that short-ish start/finish straight. The 675 just had so much.

Can't really comment about the cornering though as I ride like a 2 day old duck on ice! Rolling on the floor laughing Be interesting to hear what the other guys from that day thought as we'd done Donnington together a few months earlier with me on a stock D6.

Nah - i was going slow to feed your ego Smile

Seriously though - the 675 is faster is all aspects. DOwn the straight against my 650 Tim pulled ahead, and we both ride / get on the throttle at about the same time. It is a faster bike and turns in quicker too from what i could see with Tim on it.

If the D650 is going to beat a D675 it will need gearing down. THe 14:47 on my trackbike would give a standard 675 a good run for it's money i reckon (in the right hands) Covered Laugh

Road KTM RC8 (White) and Track Triumph D600 (Red)
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 10 March 2010 12:09AM
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You're all missing the point, I'm not trying to beat it.

The whole idea is to see if it's better to spend a grand on your bike or put another 5 grand in and buy the latest bike. Obviously only from a track point of view as we all buy new bikes for very different reasons.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Graycat 10 March 2010 06:40AM
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Quote
Monty
Tim are you offering the services of a stock 675? Might help Superbike as I reckon Triumph maybe a bit reluctant to lend them a bike.

sure ..... if they pay for the trackday for me! Smile lol Was very tempted to come and play on this one myself but moving house ..... again ..... end of April so pennies are tighter than ... something really tight It wasn't me


Raw power aside as it seems to be a very short twisty track I think the 675's sharper turn in a lower delivery of the power will make it faster by a goodly margin. Of course this will all come down to the rider of course. Same test with you on yours and me on mine then I'd still expect to struggle to keep up with you out of the pit lane ;)

One thing I have noticed between the D6 and 675 is that the 675 is that much sharper and less forgiving so ridden well on a twisty course should suit it.

What's the average lap time for a 600 round that track? I reckon the Duc might have had too much power if it's really that slippy. Remember Fifth Gear taking a Duc 999 round their test track? Spent most of it's time on the rear wheel! Rolling on the floor laughing
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 10 March 2010 08:40AM
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Tim your comparing your experience with a standard 650 and a standard 675, and that's not the plan.

The plan is to fit data loggers to a standard 675 and my modded 650 and then one of the testers from Superbike is going to ride them back to back. Hopefully I get a go on the 675 when he's on mine.

At Donington Kev's 675 was doing about the same laps as mine, I could sit on his arse all day but couldn't get past him.

The BSB guys go around brands in around 46 seconds and a good 600 endurance racing time is about 53 seconds. I've done a 59 second lap but generally average around 1.02. That was before I fitted the WP rear so I'm hoping to do a 56/57 next time.

I predict the 675 will win but not by the difference in cost and not by as much as you expect.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 24 April 2010 05:36AM
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Well what a day, tiring, very frustrating at times, but overall great fun with a few comedy moments.

First session was just a nice gently tootle as my rear tyre was brand new that day and needed scrubbing in.

Second session ended early when my sprocket carrier bearing collapsed, so I didn’t really get any decent laps in.

The rest of the morning was spent getting my bearings replaced at Brands Hatch Yamaha. Big thanks to my mate Dan who lent me his Hornet and sat on the back holding my rear wheel all the way there! Think we were very lucky not to have bumped into plod or fell off for that matter!

The Yamaha guys were great and luckily had all the bearings in stock; was in and out in 30 minutes. Even more luckily I found a gap under the fence at the paddock gate which saved me the 5 mile walk back to the pits in leathers carrying my wheel and helmet.

Got back to the pits a complete sweaty knackered mess and with the help of the lads got the wheel back on in time for a rushed lunch before the afternoon sessions started.

First session after lunch or my third session was a slow and was lapping around 1.06/1.07 at best, which was a bit disappointing. I’m normally around 1.02/1.03 and had managed a few 59 second laps last time. Not really sure why, probably just a bit rusty.

Forth session I took out the Superbike Magazine Daytona 675 and all I can say is what a machine; it’s just so easy to ride. I really wasn’t pushing it and my lap times instantly dropped by around 3 seconds to around 1.03. And that was without really trying. There’s a much better spread of power which really shows on the gas out of the slower corners. Pretty much as I had expected.

The brakes are on a completely different level to mine which much more power and feel, but the bike didn’t feel quite as stable as mine when hard on the brakes. Interestingly while quicker out of the corners it didn’t feel as planted and moved around a bit. Probably because it wasn’t set up for me as my bike is.

Jon Pearson of Superbike Magazine (or “fook me he’s fast” as most of us referred to him through out the day) took my bike out for a session. Fantastic fun watching him going around the outside of group 3 riders on litre track bikes! Must have destroyed a few egos in the process.

Fifth and last session was back on my bike and managed to get back down to around 1.03 equalling what I had done on the 675 but obviously trying a lot harder than I had on the 675. Annoyingly the bloody fuel light came on while sat on the grid and I had to come back in early just as I was finally getting into it. I’d reset the trip on the grid and figured at 17 miles I was pushing my luck on what had been not a very lucky day.

So the verdict from my limited novice experience. Yes the stock 675 is a better bike on the track than my modified 650, but that’s pretty much what I expected.

It’s the friendliest, easiest bike to ride I’ve ever ridden. Feels much sharper more nibble and although it’s around the same actual weight feels much lighter.

Although it hasn’t got much more power on paper, only around 6 BHP at the top end, it’s definitely has much more grunt in the mid range were it counts.

Would I chop mine in and buy one for the extra performance alone, ignoring all other reasons that we buy new bikes for. No, it would cost me another 4 or 5 grand and wouldn’t get 4 or 5 grands worth of extra performance.

For an experts opinion you’ll all have to buy the August copy of Superbike magazine, but please don’t laugh to hard at the pictures!

Think this has pretty much cemented my mind, this time next year the 650 is going to become a track bike and I’m getting an 848 for the road. Or an F4, no maybe the new BMW……

Monty
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Kwacky 24 April 2010 05:57AM
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Great write up. Be sure to let us know when the mag comes out.

I hope we got pimped In love
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 24 April 2010 07:58AM
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Kwacky
I hope we got pimped In love

Well I put the Tanslap stickers on the night before, so it just depends on the photographer and what pics the editor chooses.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Duke63 24 April 2010 08:41AM
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Sounds like you had an eventful day, Monty.

Would you buy a 675 for the road?
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 24 April 2010 08:50AM
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Duke63
Would you buy a 675 for the road?

No but only because I'm not a fan of the looks, and it feels too small for me. It's a corking bike in every other respect. Think I've got my heart set on an 848.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Duke63 24 April 2010 08:56AM
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848 In love. Very nice. Get a test ride if you haven't already. It's a completely different biking experience to an IL4 or even a triple.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Flow 24 April 2010 09:45AM
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Quote
Monty
Quote
Duke63
Would you buy a 675 for the road?

No but only because I'm not a fan of the looks, and it feels too small for me. It's a corking bike in every other respect. Think I've got my heart set on an 848.

Mate, please don't buy an 848 or I'll have to buy a Streetfighter and I was just getting used to the idea of keeping my Tuono for a couple mioe years!
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 24 April 2010 10:36AM
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Quote
Flow
Quote
Monty
Quote
Duke63
Would you buy a 675 for the road?

No but only because I'm not a fan of the looks, and it feels too small for me. It's a corking bike in every other respect. Think I've got my heart set on an 848.

Mate, please don't buy an 848 or I'll have to buy a Streetfighter and I was just getting used to the idea of keeping my Tuono for a couple mioe years!

Me thinks it's time for a visit to that nice guy we met at Ducati in Alton and a few hours up and down the A339
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 24 April 2010 09:33PM
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Duke63
848 In love. Very nice. Get a test ride if you haven't already. It's a completely different biking experience to an IL4 or even a triple.

Still got a few bikes to try out. I've tested the F4 and going to test the 848, BMW, Blade and R1 this summer.

Have a feeling that most of them will be a bit overkill for what I do on the road and the 848 should fit quite nicely.
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Cornish 05 May 2010 04:45AM
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Nice write up Monty me old fellow.

848, BMW, Blade, man you'll have to let the group decide on that one, although a trip to Alton one weekend sounds nice.

Finally i can say Monty really went through it on the day, tired, running about, bearings, trying to beat his BH lap times of old, THEN would you believe it, he's zip bust on his one piece, so he had to spend the whole time "sucking in" during the photo shoot, poor, poor man!

Carpe De Pasty
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Kwacky 05 May 2010 04:56AM
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My leathers split ages ago Big Smile
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Cornish 05 May 2010 05:49AM
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I did feel for Monty, though, it was a long day and he only managed to smoke 1,578 fags in the end, which was tough when holding everything in!

Carpe De Pasty
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 05 May 2010 10:22PM
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Quote
Cornish
I did feel for Monty, though, it was a long day and he only managed to smoke 1,578 fags in the end, which was tough when holding everything in!

HA HA HA HA GIT....
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Cornish 05 May 2010 10:36PM
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Thought that would get your attention buddy! Clearly i should not throw stones too far from my home, as they say.

From fellow "Belly Challenge 2010" chap.

Cornish

Carpe De Pasty
Re: Brands Hatch Indy anyone? Thursday 22/04/2010
Monty 05 June 2010 09:04AM
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Well here it is. I agree with most of what he says, but a bit disappointed not to have a comparison of his lap times. Mine where pants on the day and as a novice don't really mean a great deal.

Also for those who have not met me in person, I do have a neck and I'm not as hard as I look!








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